Sunday, November 2, 2008

Black and white

So I'm pretty well-known for not exactly being a huge fan of the FSF and Richard Stallman, despite the fact that I obviously love the GPLv2 and use it as the license for all my projects that I care about.

The reason has always been that I don't like single-issue people, nor do I think that people who turn the world into black and white are very nice or ultimately very useful. The fact is, there aren't just two sides to any issue, there's almost always a range or responses, and "it depends" is almost always the right answer in any big question. And not being even willing to see the other side makes for bad decisions.

Don't get me wrong - I love seeing people who are really passionate about what they do, and many people have something they really care about. It's just that when that becomes something exclusionary, it often gets ugly. It's not passion for something, it becomes passion against something else.

This is, just to take an example, one of the reasons I try to avoid talking much about Microsoft - I'm very passionate about Linux (obviously), but quite frankly, I really find the whole notion of Linux as being "against Microsoft" to be silly and wrong-headed. Yeah, I might make an occasional tongue-in-cheek joke or two, but does anybody really seriously think that you can put 17+ years of your life and make good decisions based on hate and fear?

That was also why I didn't (and don't) like GPLv3 - I think many of the changes weren't due to being "pro free software", but more a mindless reaction against things like TiVO, and the whole black-and-white, "good vs evil" mindset.

The reason I bring this up is that while I can't vote, I did want to say publicly anyway that I really really hope that Obama will be the US president elect after Tuesday night. I realize it probably won't come as a big shock to anybody (yes, I'm a socially liberal open source freak from Europe - so what would you expect?), and others will just be angry.

If anybody wants a reason for that, just watch (or listen to) Obama's "Call to Renewal" keynote speech from 2006. It looks like it's split into 5 pieces on youtube - the whole thing is about 40 minutes - but it's worth it, just to hear something rare: mentioning religion in the US without being black-or-white.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tdoQr3BQ1g

It's not a rick-roll, I promise. It's also probably not the best link (the thing must exist somewhere as a single video - it's how I remember seeing it originally), but it's the one I found now.

There are other reasons, but that's the one that originally made me hope Obama would take the democratic nomination. And what he has done since hasn't changed that. He's obviously smart and thoughtful, and he has a very interesting background that makes me believe that he really can see the other side not just when it comes to religion, but when it comes to international issues too.

Of course I'm biased (we all have our quirks), but I think it makes a difference to have actually lived in another culture. I suspect Obama understands the US better because he has seen something else, and has seen it from a wider background. He's not a black and white person - and ironically, that is probably partly exactly because he is a black and white person in a totally different sense.

And this really is about more than just being positive about the issues (as opposed to negative campaigning). It's about having the capability of understanding - and accepting - that others have other motivations than you do, even when you don't share them.

Not that I'm saying that I'm always a great example myself. I get angry and negative, and quite frankly, I have a really hard time understanding and accepting some of the nuts I see out there. But hey - that's why I'm endorsing Barack Obama, not myself, for president.

313 comments:

1 – 200 of 313   Newer›   Newest»
onli said...

I didn't find a whole video. But on http://obama.senate.gov/podcast/060628-call_to_renewal_1/ you can hear the whole speech in one piece.

Menda said...

If Europe wants Obama it's a sign that he will be a good president. After seeing what americans vote (George Bush) I wonder if the majority of americans are stupid or just that they have a lack of history.

In Europe a president like him would be never voted TWICE.

RAV TUX said...

I agree with you 100% Linus about GPLv3. Recently the developers at cafelinux.org choose the X11 License (AKA as the MIT license) for OzOS (A Xubuntu derivative using the enlightenment 17 DE). The direction of GPL is going astray in a way that may not benefit the whole of the GNU/Linux, Open Source world. The Modified BSD License is by far the best which essential duplicates the X11 License. As a GNU/Linux, Open Source developers I prefer (as well as our General Counsel) the X11 License.

Bernard said...

As a New Zealander, I agree with the wanting Obama to win. I can't decide if McCain would be better or worse than Bush. Back in 2000 I think he would've been better, but it seems like he has flip-flopped on a lot of issues to get the nomination for GOP presidential candidate.

Stoffe said...

The other side of the coin with Stallman is that he has never really been wrong so far, even if it has taken years now and then before his prophecies come true. He's a Gandalf Stormcrow for sure, but that makes him uncomfortable, not wrong.

I don't think that's the case for many politicians, American or not. :)

Tore Sinding Bekkedal said...

Wise, thoughtful and insightful words. Thanks for publishing them. :)

Buster Dog said...

I am glad I don't always see the Linus in black and white.
Linux - Love it
Git - Love it
Politics, I am voting for McCain.

Ernad Husremović said...

Great article. The another European :)

LoseThos said...

God gave us free will. He didn't make it impossible to sin. Think about that.

The purpose of life is to know God, love God and obey God. Call me a nut, but I think getting God to talk to you should be a priority. I suggest you randomly open books until they talk to you. I randomly generate words.

God says...
displayed travailing unshakenly kept likedst fledged rejoiceth
LIABILITY fitted adorned dispensest soothed celebrated
sunder incumbrances pines par moved saddeneth consist
whereto sleep boils dreams reproved discovereth stealing
reside wood Esau circumstance divided sins glory recent
audience look attendant Could

Arin said...

well, if Obama wins, something will happen. i hope for the best. If McCain wins, we'll be in for 4-8 years of the same.

LoseThos said...

Sorry for the double post, but that raised a funny point.

Just ask people, "Are you richer than Jesus?"

Here's scripture:

Jesus answered him, "Foxes have dens and birds of the sky have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to rest his head."
59



God's a riot.

smitty1e said...

[anti-partisan rantlet]
The irony of this post is the overlap between aspects of the thinking of RMS and some of the thinkers who've influenced Senator Obama.
The whole "Progress" thing is every bit as much about doing your thinking for you as GPLv3.
Who gets to define "fair" wields excessive power.
The criticism of Senator McCain is well-founded. Who does McCain revere if not the Original Progressive, Teddy Roosevelt?
The US Constitution, as written, tries to take a very live-and-let-live approach. See Amendment X.
However, the real precursor to tyranny is the concentration of power in DC that has been going on for about 100 years, and really germinated under FDR with his 1944 State of the Union address.
So those that hold the Constitution more dear than political parties need to speak out about how a generally good framework is being bulldozed by those who'd line their wallets, while selling it under names such as "progress", "fairness", and "social justice".
[/anti-partisan rantlet]

Wonderboy said...

For the most part, I just try to avoid politics. Both sides tend to see in just black and white, like you said.

I kind of disagree with you a little on the GPLv3. Then again, I haven't read it thoroughly. I happen to really admire and respect the GNU project, and the presence of Free Software.

Still, I ought to take a look through the GPLv3 and get some facts straight before I bring up any arguments about it.

Cheers.

sharkfish said...

I think you have expressed the uneasiness most of us feel about black/white thinking. Thank you and I'm so glad you came out to support Obama. The US needs someone to lead who understands complexities.

Kevin Yeaux said...

I absolutely agree with your setiment about black & white in the world today. To take it a step further, it's this black and white thinking of Bush that's lead the US to where it is today.

Although I do disagree with the endorsement of Obama, but as you said, it's all about ideologies. I'm a freedom-loving Libertarian from the US Gulf Coast, so I'm not all for Obama's tax increases or increases in government. (Note that I'm not for McCain either. I support Libertarian candidate Bob Barr).

EP said...

Really well said.

If running a country as large, powerful and as internationally involved as the US could be reduced to preset binary decisions we would have written a program to take care of it 40 years ago.

There are some who say such a program does exist but, alas, since they won't release the source code we remain skeptical. :-)

We live in a world of incredible complexity. I hope we don't get our minds stuck so deep in our heuristics and simplified modeling that we forget how complex the dynamic, nonlinear and analog reality we exist in is.

I'd agree that Obama seems to see the world and its complexity clearly and that's a good place to start.

Scott Graham said...

Most of the rest of the not-voting-in-the-election world agrees with you, apparently:

http://www.economist.com/Vote2008/

A. W. Wright said...

There are many, many more shades of grey then there are black and white.
I could never understand how people think Obama is gonna change everything up when really he supports the same big-government, expansion of power, and economic policies that Bush does (with the exception of taxation/"spread the wealth around"), especially the print the money, lets give everyone affordable attitude that got us into this economic mess.
Centralization of power (especially in a country as big as the US) leads to abuse of it, as so many SVN users (or ex-GWB supporters) may attest to.
Kernel? Thank you. Git? Brilliant! Those development philosophies work at the federal government level too - more local action, less federal regulation. The 10th amendment has to be one of the most ignored, and yet it is one of the biggest reaching freedoms we have - to local, not national, governance.

tutufan said...

Of the things RMS has written or that I have heard with my own ears, he seems like a very reasonable guy. I don't necessarily always agree with his strategies, but I think he is very sincere and fundamentally on the right track. If there were no RMS, I think our world would be a lesser place.

Hagus said...

You want to talk about black & white ... that is what Republicans are all about. There are no shades of gray. Check out the classic Al Jazeera Ohio video (google it) or the "Bomb Obama" video. Moderate Republicans can be some of the most level headed, intelligent people out there; unfortunately many of their supporters are, to put it bluntly, fucking lunatics. Gun rights, creationism, anti-abortion, institutional racism, suspension of habeas corpus, war mongering ... you simply won't find liberal Democrats fronting up with these ideas.

I think the key thing here is to not make voting a right. Make it an earned responsibility. That will flush out the nut cases who don't even understand the rights they claim to be supporting. Make people pass a basic test on how government works (you know: "what is the senate?" etc). The bar needs to be raised. That will give both Republicans and Democrats breathing room and the ability to cease pandering to fringe lunatics and instead support the productive parts of the economy and citizenry.

I'm a foreigner living in the US, these are just my fresh observations from living here for a few years. When you're living in a country where the potential VP (and hence potential President), Sarah Palin, believes that people walked the earth with dinosaurs 4,000 years ago, you really do start to get frightened.

A Republican government combined with the current economic crisis would be nothing short of an apocalyptic disaster. Jesus fuck we need someone with two brains cells to rub together steering this ship, not a politically illiterate bumpkin from Alaska. For it to have reached this point, it should be obvious there are real and substantial failures in the system.

Phillip Rhodes said...

Agreed about the whole "black and white" issue, in general. I am probably a little bit more of a Stallman / FSF than than Linus, but I do understand where he's coming from. And I do like the GPLv2 and LGPL licenses a lot, FWIW. But strangely enough, my primary project these days (OpenQabal) is Apache License v2.0, instead of any sort of GPL variant. (shrug).

As for Obama vs. McCain... As a freedom loving Libertarian from NC, I see both of them as being big government statists and borderline totalitarians, and really don't have any preference for one over the other. Bob Barr is getting my support.

Church said...

All I can say is that I'm a USian Republican. And I'm voting for this guy.

Some time in the last eight years the Republican party turned into a Simpsons parody of itself.

I usually go to the Libertarians in such cases, but they're just putting on a show these days.

Also, I appreciate people like RMS, but not in the political arena.

ReobaTux said...

Yes i Think Obama is the best choice.

Im Mexican, but this days I have seen more news about USA Elections that the weather in my State...The true is the, If Obama wins, he would be the first black president of USA, and i thinks that's the hardest problem of all...USA still have so much racist people, i know all countrys have racist people, but lets be honest, USA have more than others...Well about other thins, i think that if obama wins, then so many things of what the bible say are happening... Just take a look about the Amero and the World Currency...

Well..Linus, My teacher of Logic Programming (SWI Prolog) is a bloody-fan of Linux...i think im even more than her lol, She is the type of teacher that dont care if you are crying tears of blood, the program must work! lol...there's no problem if you send me an autograph or something so i can past the subjet....xD Lol Im just kidding...

Greetings from Mexico!!...
I Need to work on Prolog :(

bacon said...

Europe can vote for the US president if they become part of the US. In the mean time...

I'm a socially liberal fiscal conservative, and I don't like our options with either party. I think the US is best served by having congress and the executive branch in different parties which is why I'll ultimately be voting for McCain. The idea of a democratic congress and a democratic president rubber stamping everything through scares me. Same with a republican congress and republican president too, btw.

bacon said...

To make my previous comment more on point, I don't see how Obama's views on religion will have any effect in the US. Additionally, he seems to have a pretty strong desire to increase socialist movements here, and I highly doubt he will veto anything the democratic party is able to pass through congress.

I'm not embarrassed to listen to him speak (as long as it is scripted) which is more than I can say for McCain. He has an uncanny ability to improve the world view of the US. It will be a little easier as an American to tour Europe. I guess that's something I can ponder while increased taxes accelerate the economy into the toilet.

LoseThos said...

I had an epiphany on economics. Focus on goods and services, not money. It is impossible to make the poor richer -- where would this wealth -- goods and services -- materialize from? Where would doctors and nurses for extended healthcare materialize from? They'd have to be people who changed jobs meaning there would be less services of another kind, like waitresses or haircutters. With full employment, you must make less of one thing to get more of another. So, Obama's clueless. Wealthy don't really use a significant number of goods and services.

Similarly, you can't stimulate the economy with money. How does this create more goods and services, long term? The only way to raise standards of living is through increasing productivity.

Blogger Dai said...

can I come and leace a comment after 1 days...

Linus said...

bacon: the reason I think his views on religion matters is not because it's about religion per se, but because of how he talks about a difficult subject in a nuanced way.

I give f*ck all about libertarians, democrats or republicans. There are certainly republicans out there who are clearly intelligent and nuanced people too (ok, Chuck Hagel comes to mind, but I'm sure there must be others. Admittedly the Republican party hasn't exactly been known for their "nuanced" views lately).

But regardless of party affiliation or lack there-of, I do think it matters a lot how you approach issues.

If you approach something as a black-and-white, either-or, "us against them", "my way or the highway", "axis of evil" kind of person, you're simply not fit to be a high school principal, much less president of the United States of America.

In contrast, Obama gives a thoughtful and interesting speech about a difficult subject, and one that happens to matter a lot more than it should in the US.

It wasn't a "us against them" black-and-white thing for him. And looking at how he has handled his campaign, it's clearly not just one speech from a couple of years ago, nor is it just about religion.

So religion is interesting in this race not because of how "Obama's views on religion will have any effect in the US", as you say. No, the important part is how it shows quite a difference between the way of thinking between the two camps.

One camp is thoughtful about it and treating it as a nuanced area where people differ, and the other one picks a VP from the crazy nut-job camp that talk s about "God's plan" in Iraq.

Don't you think that will reflect their choices in other areas too? I do.

Adam said...

It's interesting to see an outsider's perspective on the election. I lived in Illinois in 2006, and supported Obama's Senate run, and I am fully intending to support him on Tuesday in the general election.

The McCain that is running now, is not the McCain of the past. In the past he was essentially the most liberal Republican in the Senate, but then he drank from Karl Rove's kool-aid and is now no better than any of the other Republicans in the government.

But yeah... I'm just hoping that come Tuesday I don't have to start making plans to move to Canada or Europe to escape the hell that a McCain/Palin administration would bring to the country.

-Adam

milk&oj said...

I like the part when you referenced rick-rolling. Richard Stallman's articles were a major turning point in my understanding of why and how I use computers. I never knew you were ever in opposition of his ideals, no matter how black and white they are, at least they are standing for something.

Linus said...

milk&oj: it's not that I'm in opposition to rms' ideals. Quite the reverse - I thought it was obvious (from spending a lot of my life on open source software) that I would share a lot of them.

So it's not the ideals - it's how you react to people who do not share them.

IOW, it's the whole black-and-white thing. Stallman literally sees free software as a fight between "good and evil". And quite frankly, that is simply stupid.

You do realize that the FSF scared a lot of reasonable people away with its politics?

One of the things Linux did was to make open source acceptable to a lot of people (and yes, it's why I and others say "open source" rather than "free software").

So I do share a lot of ideals with rms. I just don't think you're evil if you don't share them, nor do I feel a need to convert you. It's not a good and evil thing, it's not black-and-white, and it's not either-or.

I happen to believe that open source just works better a a technical development model, and is more fun to boot. But it is not some absolute yes-or-no ethical issue. The world is more nuanced than that. Maybe I'm even wrong, although so far my theory seems to be doing ok..

And this is why I then pointed to Obama's speech about religion. He believes one thing, but that doesn't make him denounce people who believe differently, and he can talk about the (obvious) need for people to accept differences.

That was what I tried to allude to when it comes to seeing the world not as a place where there are just two choices of "right vs wrong".

Almost no real-life issue is that way, and people who see things in those kinds of absolute terms are naïve. And we certainly don't need another president like that.

Adik65 said...

Great post! I'm not really a big fan of what you say usually but this time I must say, I 100 % agree with you.

Christoph

David said...

Linus: Also, isn't it just as important to be able to take a nuanced and careful position on issues that are genuinely those of good and evil? For instance, criminal justice and determination of innocence are absolutely dealing with actual harms and benefits, and with "good and evil." But reductionist thought there doesn't help either ;-)

LoseThos said...

Umm... most big things in the world are God's plan. After getting to know the real God, things make more sense. God said war was "servicemen competing". You tell me that that doesn't make more sense than anything you ever heard from a priest or preacher.

About this plan thing... God's been known to punish countries, so there's no reason to be all enthused, necessarily. Just remember he sent His son to die for us! He quotes a book which says "suffering simplifies life".

By some logic, recessions increase productivity. God's ways are far above man's ways.

God says...
injurable finding accomplices beams befell greet Edition fervid show continuance fleeing Defects brought ascend mode

capecoder said...

Good grief, Linus, why'd you have to "put your foot in it" this late in the game?

Most of the people in the US who support Obama rationalize their decision in one of two ways: his speechmaking ability and the success of his campaign.

Running a political campaign awash in piles of money, half of which comes from questionable sources, is not equivalent to governance, but even by those superficial standards, either writer Jon Favreau or campaign manager David Plouffe should be the ones running for the Presidency.

I've always assumed that Europeans were smarter than us Americans because of your superior educational systems, but the support that Obama has received from overseas has been a distressing wake-up call.

Given Obama's minimal experience, his "my brother's keeper" hypocrisy, wacky economic ideas and questionable past and present relationships, one can only conclude that the European intelligentsia think that he will be a good President because he simply looks the part: he's thin, graceful and wears clothes well.

I mean after all, our delicate sensibilities would be grievously offended if we had to look at the awkward John McCain, unsightly war wounds and all, for the next four years, now, wouldn't they?

I can understand European movie stars and political figures falling all over themselves for someone like Obama, but Linus Torvald?

Please, please, please tell us that your endorsement was either written in a moment of temporary insanity or that it is a joke.

TitanKing said...

Still would rather enjoy the company of Richard Stallman then Steve Ballmer. I really have allot of respect for Richard, and obviously for you as well, although I do not agree with liberal believes as I personally think this is why the world is in such a mess today.

Olmen said...

Det är kul att se att du sprider och delar med dig av din finsk-europeiska socialistanda i det ack så geopolitiskt omedvetna USA. Jag kan ju inte påstå att det kommer som någon stor förvåning att du endorsar Obama, åtminstone 90 % av europeerna hoppas på att det skall gå vägen för Obama och jag själv kommer att sitta klistrad framför dumburken och följa med hur det går. Mycket mer så än under kommunalvalet som gick av stapeln för några veckor sedan. Kudos till din pappa som tydligen blev invald :-)

Måste bara i det här skedet kommentera att ett av de bästa citaten i världshistorien imho är en kommentar du gjorde under en Google Talk som du höll om GIT: "...because no one writes perfect code the first time. Well, except me. But there's only one me!" :D Haha, det har blivit en riktig klassiker på jobbet (som btw inte har nåt med programmering att göra :P )

Obama for president!

- Olle Mattsson

holmahenkel said...

Couldn't agree more. Well written, Linus!

Linux User said...

God is good. Religion is trash. I dont belong to any religion, but I am the son of God.

People need to understand the difference between God and Religion. Both are totally different thing !

:)

Btw Linus what is your daily timetable ?

Patrick said...

You can watch the whole speech in 1 piece at http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid900718856/bclid900554575/bctid416343938

Paul said...

I'm with you on Obama. When I hear him speak I hear a good hearted man, who core principle is to do what he sees as best for the people. People won't agree with him all the time, but that's ok. A President led by good intentions, and good judgment is a vast improvement over the status quo.

Then again, I'm European, so I'm obviously a liberal ;-)

On the GPLv3, I understand where you're coming from. Stallman does tend to be a fundamentalist, and take a no compromise line. That said, GPLv3 is two things.

1) It's a reaction to people abusing the GPLv2, following the letter, rather than the spirit of the document. Without v3 there was no license for people who wanted to stop these abuses on their code.

and so....

2) It's a better description of what the spirit of the document was initially. I'm personally not sure why people are against the GPLv3, but support the v2. It's goal is the same thing. If you chose v2 and your ideals haven't changed (you still want people to gain from your code, but for it never to be proprietary) then why do you disagree with v3. The loopholes that allowed people to go against the spirit of your choice have been made tighter. Isn't that a good thing?

There seems to have been a bit of a backlash again the GPL in favour of licenses such as BSD, and the v3 got caught up in it.

The important thing to remember though is that it's still a choice, and I never begrudge anybodies choice of license for THEIR code.

onionbhajee said...

I personally think McCain looks a bit creepy. Thats my two cents/pence.

Katrineholm Uncensored said...

So far as single issue folks go, well, to quote you yourself Linus, "it depends." :)

Regards from Sweden!
Katrineholm Uncensored

imfabs said...

Haha, oh come on. You're not as black & white on some issues as Stallman?

So the best method of source control: "depends"? :-P

We all have our issues that we are completely polar on, it's just that RMS's issue is different to yours.

It takes all types, Abraham Lincoln was an absolute moderate on the issue of slavery and ended up signing the emancipation proclamation. Martin Luther King was anything but a moderate when it came to black civil rights.

History required both.

melo said...

The full video is here:

* http://www.barackobama.com/issues/faith/
* click on the "Watch Video";
* scroll all the way down on the video selection box.

Thank you for putting my fears of the GPLv3 into actual words.

Best regards,

andersen.hc said...

Well said, Linus. Having a more worldly view is precisely what America needs to gain some standing in the world again. I think Americans have sort of figured this out after making electing Bush and having him in office for now 8 years - that a president needs to have intellectual curiousity and that, just because one candidate is claiming to be more American and more patriotic, does not make it so and trivial issues like gay marriage and such should not be the basis for who the next president should be.

Lead the world by example, not by decree... you know?

artiphys said...

I am a US hacker type with a libertarian bent. I believe there are many of my ilk, though we are poorly organised and don't seem to have much political impact.

I like Obama as a person; I appreciate his skills as a politician and orator. I will vote for him in part because he is infinitely preferable to the GOP ticket, especially with the addition of Palin. I think he is basically sincere, and will try to do his best for the country, based on his principles.

It's his principles I am worried about. The US is not Europe, and in my opinion that's a good thing. As a serial entrepeneur, I have seen up close and personal how businesses are built; how you develop a product and sell it to customers; and the impact that various players in the social landscape have on your ability to succeed and thrive. In particular, the American business culture (small startups, VC capital, college drop-out CEO's etc) is unparalleled anywhere else in the world, IMSHO. We are free to start companies, raise money, hire people, and fire them if necessary. I am chilled to the bone when I talk to folks who live in Europe, Asia, and even Canada about their experiences trying to do what we do here. The degree of beaurocracy, red tape, and excessive regulation they encounter is just so extreme that most of them either give up, or set their sights on extremely limited goals, and must partner up with 'real' companies to which they are forever beholden.

Even in the US, I saw a difference in rules between New York and California. Now this example may upset some of you, but it's important to understand what it's like from the POV of management running a business. We raised $15M on the public market (basically an IPO) in 1999, when everything was gung-ho. We hired 100 new people, pushing our staff size up to about 150. By mid-2000, the internet/tech market had completely crashed, and it became clear that our business model (put up a big site, get eyeballs, raise more money, repeat) was absolutely useless. We made a tough decision: we fired 120 people, reducing the staff to a small group that was necessary and capable of executing a much more conservative and reasonable business plan. The company still exists today, employs about 40 people, and does business with major companies such as Skype and Adobe. During that period, this company also contributed to the open source effort Theora, which is a patent-free video codec that is scheduled to be incorporated into future versions of Mozilla.

If this company had existed in, say, France, my understanding is we never could have fired those people. In fact, because of the rules, the likelihood is we never would have hired them in the first place. I let people go with 2 weeks severance who had just had babies, were buying houses, etc. It was brutal. But by my priciples, and for the most part those of my employees, it was fair and acceptable. Employment was a contract between consenting parties. It is an 'at will' agreement; we keep it going as long as it is mutually beneficial. It is up to all parties to the contract to be aware of that nature, and to understand and if necessary prepare for the risks involved, including the company having to lay off 3/4 of its staff, shut its doors, or reorganize in other ways.

I fear that an Obama presidency, in conjunction with a strong majority Democratic congress, will push our country towards the European model. One pundit described it well: instead of focusing on creating jobs by building a strong economy, the impulse is to focus on protecting jobs and markets, ostensibly for the sake of social order. The problem is, that approach inevitably leads to a more risk-averse stance on innovation, which in turn leads to less opportunity, less social mobility, and eventually less overall quality of life. At least that's the argument.

As Linus says, it's not black & white.

-dan

Colin said...

I love your view of the world! I completely agree about viewing things positively. I know a few classic examples of people being so entrenched in the open-source movement they arrogantly dismiss anything to do with Microsoft.

imfabs said...

Employment was a contract between consenting parties. It is an 'at will' agreement; we keep it going as long as it is mutually beneficial. It is up to all parties to the contract to be aware of that nature, and to understand and if necessary prepare for the risks involved, including the company having to lay off 3/4 of its staff, shut its doors, or reorganize in other ways.

It is certainly unfortunate that your inability to adequately assess risk, adversely affected those who were not in a position where they were able to do so.

You have your little cut-throat world, fortunately I do not live in it. But it seems that according to polls very few people actually do.

Shannon Wagner said...

I just don't think the single outcome of any particular Presidential race is very important. i.e., Who wins does not make a significant difference. It is only one office, only one branch of the government, and the U.S. government was specifically designed to prevent an abuse of power by the Executive, Legislative, or Judicial branch.

Aside from the checks and balances, corporations (most specifically the ones with strong marketing teams, and the media content producers and distributors) have, arguably, far more power over the direction that the government and the citizens of the country move in. That means the most significant influence lies with the people who work for those companies (not just the top managers).

I believe it's a big mistake to continue to place the emphasis we do on the Presidency. By buying into the idea of a single leader who controls all, we allow it to continue. But the truth is, the only reason for that winner-take-all mentality is that it is conveniently easy to market the product (the candidate) and it becomes a trophy for whoever wins it - quite a big trophy. The alternative has so many gray areas that folks would have a tough time deciding how to write the speeches and where to place the TV ads.

This year, I will continue to step outside of the Presidential election process by voting for a candidate who is directly addressing these root causes. A candidate who is changing the way the process works.

artiphys said...

>> Employment was a contract between consenting parties.
...
> It is certainly unfortunate that your inability to adequately assess risk, adversely affected those who were not in a position where they were able to do so.

> You have your little cut-throat world, fortunately I do not live in it. But it seems that according to polls very few people actually do.

Not sure what you mean by polls, but you certainly don't understand much about business, particularly startups. You've completely missed the whole point of my post. I'm not asking anyone to agree; I'm trying to explain why even socially liberal Americans may have some issues with what McCain is calling the 'socialist' agenda of Obama.

Read this article, it will help you understand what I'm talking about:

http://www.paulgraham.com/america.html

it's not an issue of 'cutthroat'. It's an issue of *liberty* -- the freedom to do as you please, _including_ the freedom to enter into agreements on your own behalf, as a responsible adult.

jdmonroe said...

By limiting our vision of the past and present we commit ourselves to failures in the future.

Religion and politics are about leading people in a direction. While I don't believe in the direction and vision of today's and yesterday's religion.

I do believe in faith, doing good and doing what it takes to give to my family, friends, community, country. My faith isn't based on any dogma or commitment to any one view of faith. My point being, I don't need to be organized to believe what I believe.

If you are a thinking and feeling being you know that there are an infinite distance between 0 and 1. There is no black and white, there is only gray!

imfabs said...

"it's not an issue of 'cutthroat'. It's an issue of *liberty* -- the freedom to do as you please, _including_ the freedom to enter into agreements on your own behalf, as a responsible adult."

Yes unfortunately it is incredibly unlikely that in the process of an agreement on employment the employer and the employee are on a level playing field. Based on wealth, knowledge, supply and demand, etc etc.

I understand well the libertarian view (and your fervent belief that democracy infringes on your "freedom") and find it genuinely repulsive in its own right.

A-KO said...

Hello Linus,

Just wanted to say that it takes someone whom has traveled, lived, and spoken with people from other countries in the US to truly see your viewpoint.

I agree on the Obama bits, which is why I am voting for him. I think that even though he does not have "25 years of experience making policy in the US", his ability to think and analyze all situations is quite positive.

One could call his views a little "indecisive", but that's always a good thing. Indecisiveness and critically analyzing your own moves and ideas is certainly a great thing.

You can't be "100% for all gung ho" about every issue, you always have to analyze.

On the Linux parts, I agree as well. I think some parts of the Linux movement are too over reaching. It ranges from "just an open source, free alternative to a corporate system" to "preventing any parties from making any profit from their ideas".

The latter is a terrible thing, and certainly counterproductive. I think people should be able to make money off of using Linux and OSS Software (as long as they're allowed, of course). Not everyone has the ability to code their own OS, but a lot of people have the ability to make some great things happen on top of that foundation.

For example, do you think all the people that make those nifty Flash games could possibly have done it without Adobe creating Flash? Maybe, if some other technology came up, but they never would have written the technology themselves.

Hopefully we will see change in this country, we have to see change in this country. I don't quite think enough people here truly understand their position in the world.

radio1 said...

Hagus, You are uninformed to say the least.

How can you be in the US- yet not understand it? Right-wingers are 'lunatics' because of gun-rights? Something that is protected by the US Constitution? Right-wingers are 'lunatics' because they don't believe in abortion? The last time I checked, Roe v. Wade decision was based on the idea that a "right to privacy" extended to woman's own personal body decisions. Which is a problem (right-wingers believe) because the US Constitution does not have an amendment specifically for a "right to privacy". Rather, it is inferred by the totality of the Bill of Rights. Institutionalized racism? Are kidding me? As opposed to the centuries of repression in Europe of people based by color, class and religion?

European countries have extremely homogeneous populations when compared to the US. So, they only have issues when the 'others' come to them. See, French vs. Algerians; or any European country vs. their increasing Muslim populations... Suddenly there is a lot of bigotry and racism in Europe.

Menda, so Europe would never elect Bush twice? Well, that's great. How about Hitler just once? You guys like to liken Bush to Hitler anyways, why not return the favor? Or perhaps the 'elected' dictator Mussolini? Or any of those mayors and local Italian officials that are porn stars?

Gee, what are the historical roots of those right-wingers God lovers? Why all the 'refuse' that European countries could not handle. Their own citizens given the heave-ho because of their state's own religious intolerance against it's citizens?

You know, I really like European ideals and culture. It is more along my own line of thinking. That being said, The US was born of dissent, and carries that dissent (historical and present-day) as a talisman. It's who we are. And while when I have visited Europe, I appreciate the sense of western culture, history and art.

It still does not change that I would rather live in here with dissent and turmoil while striving to better in and for our ideals; instead Europe's torpid, stagnant and haughty societies.

Ian M said...

There are also many good things in the GPLv3 - if I remember correctly you were only against the "Consumer Product" part of it.

Even if you dislike that there are many things to like from an engineer's perspective, such as Apache license compatibility (given the increasing use of this license, this is pretty handy) and improved legal language for international usage (worth the change alone imo for a project with such international scope).

I wish that the FSF would have removed the "User Product" section and left just the other bit waiving the legal power to make changes which refers to the WIPO treaty, but on the whole I think the license is an extremely good compromise.

joshyMinor said...

yeah, I'd say thats black and white alright. no doubt.

Jiff
www.iurlz.com/datools

rsilva said...

Obama it's the only choice between the available options. But I think we all should see this:

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

It's a mind liberating film in many ways, and will help you think outside the box more often.

dannybuntu said...

Not being biased and all but "McCain" sounds like a villain in an action movie.

bananasfk said...

While the gpl v2 is good, the v3 of it should warn others that if people or corporates do play nasty and threaten then the tools (or thought) exist to shut them down.

235 rings a bell. Stallman may have a point perhaps not at this point but some stage in the future and its nice to have the choice.

Przemysław Kulczycki said...

@LoseThos

This post has nothing to do with god or religion. Why are you writing about it so much? It's irrelevant here. Please stick to the topic, which is RMS & Obama, not religion.

iCETonic said...

I really like the way you see the things!

And if I'd live in the USA, I would vote for Obama as well - he just seems to be smarter.
But I think for Europe it doesn't really matter who'll be the next US president...

ZeroEmpty said...

Full Video @ Obama's website:

http://www.barackobama.com/tv/speeches.php?bcpid=900718856&bclid=900554575&bctid=416343938

Forrest said...

Linus, thank you for a well thought out and rational endorsement. Your point about issues not just being black or white is a very important one. Somehow in the US we have let politics become black and white when almost nothing is or should be. I think Obama will try to govern in the gray which is the areas where more of us can agree.

Roger said...

Unfortunately, neither candidate will help the present situation and will only make it worse. The real crisis is one of debt and an economy based too much on services. Obama has no understanding of it, he was "staggered" at the bank crisis and decided he may even delay his huge spending plans. The US is in a huge amount of trouble with two parties that can't cut spending no matter how much it ruins the country.

rick_777 said...

I disagree with your comments about "good vs. evil". While I agree that the world isn't black and white, sometimes a great evil falls upon the world, and we have to take a stance about it.

But I don't think the GPLv3 is simply a "reactionary" movement against Tivo. That would be oversimplifying things, too. I think about the GPLv3 as an updated revision of a buggy license. In this case, tivoization was a bug (that prevented people from modding their purchased GPL-coded products), and that bug was fixed. Patents was another bug, and I think we all know how hideous software patents are.

Brett Alton said...

Hey Linus, you know you can embed YouTube videos in your blog, right?

See the HTML code beside the video you linked us to that says 'HTML' and 'Embed'?

If you copy the code for 'Embed', you can post a YouTube video in your blog without having people leave your site.

Johannes said...

Well spoken!

I wish you were the head of free software foundation. It would probably bring back those that the jackass Stallman scared away from open source. I also support you in the GPLv2 vs GPLv3 issue.

I do however favor Ron Paul over both McCain and Obama ;)

p0ok said...

Linus, it's been a long time since you lucked out with the implementation of someone else's idea (unix on a desktop), and you still seem to think that your opinions on any matter other than the history of the linux kernel is relevant.

You couldn't possibly be more wrong.

viridari said...

Without the support of FSF, GNU, RMS, et al I have little doubt that Linux would be nothing more than a historical curiosity like Microsoft Bob. Thank goodness we have RMS, even if he is rather hard to bear most of the time. Once you get past his eccentricities, he's usually right (though I'm not bought-in on the GPLv3, either).

Obama would be great if you wanted to completely disregard the Constitution and run the US like a European-flavored Socialist state. But like my friend Phillip Rhodes said (and I am voting for Phillip tomorrow; he didn't mention he's on the ballot for Lt Governor of North Carolina)... Obama and McCain are both authoritarians. One is a socialist authoritarian, one is a fascist authoritarian.

Unlike Phillip, I have a hard time endorsing Bob Barr. He says the right things most of the time, but his voting record tells the story of an authoritarian. I'm still undecided whether to vote for Barr to at least help the LP build a viable third party in the US, or take the principled approach and write in "none of the above" for president.

I just can't stomach the idea that Obama will take all of my guns away (something he has an established track record of attempting). But McCain and his hot temper have no business being so close to The Big Red Button.

No matter who wins tomorrow, we all lose.

stormy said...

I think "single-issue" people are important for pushing the boundaries. People like Richard Stallman have done a lot for open source software that those of us who aren't so single issue might not have pushed as hard for. That said, I think it's good most of the world is not that black and white or we'd never get anything done as everyone would argue all the time.

Legal Alien said...

Well, I kinda feel the same way about Stallman and his "I hate anything but what is my idea" mentality but when it comes to Obama, I can not find a single thing to like about him. He is riding the wave of being first black president candidate. Other than that, there is nothing going for him. "hope and change" is nothing more than a rhetoric. The plans he is putting forward is concentrated on taxing me more and giving to the less fortunate. In this country, I think having lived here almost as long as I did, you can agree, is the people what I call slackers 95% of the time. Yes there are some legitimately underprivileged people who are clawing and fighting their way out of this pit and they eventually will, but the rest are "welfare people" They just expect the government to give them larger and larger handouts. And Obama is just that. Nothing more. I put 60 hours long work weeks as an IT professional and anything less is treated as sub-par in my circle. In return, making a very low 6 digits income per year. And being a California resident, I'm already being taxed to death. And Mr., I am safe with my book copyright residuals, Obama want to dip his hand deeper into my pocket. McCain, together with not being the ideal candidate on my mind, is the lesser of evil.

dknute said...

Open Source...love it! Supporting Obama...NOT open source! How is supporting Obama "open source"? By supporting Obama one is totally "closed source"...Obama supports bigger government and more regulation. Isn't more regulation, loss of choice?!

dknute said...

Wait, let me put in a different way. Say you have the kernel...and then say you have all these open source programs to use with the kernel. The kernel is "regulated" by a certain few people (okay, good, no big deal, we need the expertise of those). Now say those certain "experts" progressively started regulating what/how the open source programs could/could not be changed. In the end a "closed source" world has be created under the guise of "Open"...Obama

jimmy_dean said...

The comments about Obama being anti-choice and less freedom are right on. It is the opposite of what open source and a distributed nature are. Obama is against federalism in general and that means a central government that is continually swayed more and more by special interests. The checks and balances are going out the window. Europe can keep their big government crap to themselves, we don't want it. There's a reason why we left you in the first place to form our own nation!

zorgon the malevolent said...

Menda remarked:

After seeing what americans vote (George Bush) I wonder if the majority of americans are stupid or just that they have a lack of history.

I'm an American, and I can answer that.

They're stupid.

Matt said...

Of course the world is not Black and White. It is all the colors we can see as human beings as well as those we can not (x-rays, gamma rays) and so forth.

It is human nature to believe what you believe and be ignorant to the rest, our human brains are only capable of retaining, better put, EXPRESSING, what we really feel and think. Based in a very complex and limited framework, called WORDS.

So, I have always believed that there should be no less than THREE presidents.

When push comes to shove, like VETO time, THREE minds are to vote, rather than the just ONE. (The single President/Prime Minister)

This single person, to rule the war plans and troops and bombs is DEADLY (look at all the WARS) and leads to misguided, ONLY HUMAN, mistakes.

Voting is our way of avoiding 'THE BORG SYNDROME', but once that person is in power, they might as well be the single minded BORG to lead them all.

Yes, Congress, House, Senate and all that comes into play, but still, FINAL decisions SHOULD NOT be based on ONE person's believe.

That person will ALWAYS be missing some point, so where. Unless they are non-human and from another planet.

No less than THREE presidents, is my point here.

Thomas said...

I'd just like to start changing how everyone looks at the governmental system. Even Linus has missed something. The US government was designed "of the people, by the people, for the people". Somewhere along the way, we "the people" have lost site of that. We decided to hand our country over to lawyers or people who were born into wealthy families with higher education. Lawyers, who are the buts of many jokes. None of which have to do with their great honesty and integrity. The US was founded and run by farmers who were intelligent enough to know that 2 party rule could be an issue. In those early years, they used the VP as a watch over the President. One party was president while the other party was VP. When did we think putting one party in power without a system of checks would yield anything other than laws to keep themselves in power? We now have a 2 party system where other parties cannot even get themselves onto ballots without meeting somewhat rediculous criteria. The elected officials we have now are no longer the common American as in the days of our forefathers. I do not go to a doctor for mechanical advice. Why would we expect politicians, that have nothing in common with the common people of America, to understand or care about our problems. If you have never heard of other parties, you should do a search online. There are plenty out there. Libertarians, Greens, and many others. If we are going to have any issues of the comman man resolved, we have to take power back from the 2 parties and give it back to the people. Replublican and Democrat alike will lead to nothing but more of the same that we have seen for the last 40 years at least. I challenge everyone to remember what their day to day life is like now, and in 4 years compare the "change" that comes from this election. I dare say it will be none other than taxes and more laws we don't need or that step on the rights of State governments, which is a whole other rant.

grosales said...

Linus,

I agree with you regarding the fact that nothing in this life is either black or white. Unfortunately, in a "super power" country like the US, there are still many people who do not believe that. You can see them in the comments left in your blog. I respect Mcain, but even though he may be an honorable person, he doesn't inspire leadership and consistency. He seems rather like a close minded individual. Alas, I 'm just a simple hacker working hard for a brighter future. I also support Obama by the way.

felix said...

>>Don't get me wrong - I love seeing people who are really passionate about what they do, and many people have something they really care about. It's just that when that becomes something exclusionary, it often gets ugly. It's not passion for something, it becomes passion against something else.<<

I like the way this is phrased. Very well-formed. I just use computers. I don't usually get involved with the hired help, but anybody that's for Obama is okay with me. '-)

bacon said...

@Linus: Most bills passed by either party are full of nuance. In fact, they use that nuance and sheer size of the bills to get tons of stupid laws passed.

The DMCA was passed by a unanimous vote and approved by Clinton. That's pretty rare but it illustrates the fact is that congress is full of idiots. It would take a real solid argument to convince me Obama would have vetoed this.

The other fact is that you can't ignore political parties. the fate of your political career is tied to votes and power within your party. You have some wiggle room but for the most part you need to stick to the party line to keep power and votes.

So you might as well call them team A and B. If congress is controlled by team A, why would I want veto power to rest with team A as well?

Matt said...

@Linus - Staying in the middle, and letting the best code win, based on the experts that know the subject, is pure brilliance. It is the same algorithm that drives natural selection, better known as evolution. I congratulate you on you, just being YOU.

@Bacon - You are right about team A being able to also VETO for team A.

That is why THREE presidents is a small reform, but major impact. Man, what is the correct solution?

Let's how Obama is culturally mixed enough to be that man, if one man is to run team A. As, that is the only system we have got, at this point.

postnmingle.com said...

Black and White will always have
difference, but that is
no different from individuals
having difference.

thanks from tony at:
http://www.ntopics.com

Uddhav said...

Video to the whole speech

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid353515028?bctid=416343938

CarrieC said...

The elephant in the room both in these comments and in US politics for about a decade is TOLERANCE.
As there are more and more people in the world brushing up against each other we must at least tolerate the differences in our cultures; if not celebrate our differences.
We need a leader who is tolerant and can speak about hot topic subjects in reasoned tones.
Obama is that guy. He doesn't shout or demand, just speaks quietly and passionatly.
His delivery of a speech is a balm to the ears after years of strident speach.
Thanks for writing on this subject, Linus.
-Carrie

Barius said...

i totally agree with your centrist position on life, the universe and everything. However, I disagree about your distaste for Stallman, or others with a singular vision.

I, personally, think Stallman does the world a very great service by being as bone-headed as he can be. Very few people have been able to change the world otherwise. I think the future will look back on Stallman as a man ahead of his time. If not, they'll probably remember him as a man with his head up his arse, but hey not every prophet is remembered for his good qualities ;)

Dirk Röttgers said...

Someone way up the line wrote that a politician like Bush would never have been reelected.
Well, menda, just look to Italy. They reelected Berlusconi and then, after having had Prodi, elected Berlusconi again.
And I do not see a relevant difference between him and Bush in terms of being a smug conservative Jerk.

artiphys said...

imfabs said...

> Yes unfortunately it is incredibly unlikely that in the process of an agreement on employment the employer and the employee are on a level playing field. Based on wealth, knowledge, supply and demand, etc etc.

> I understand well the libertarian view (and your fervent belief that democracy infringes on your "freedom") and find it genuinely repulsive in its own right.

Well, your comments show clearly exactly what those of us with reservations about a completely Democrat-run legislature, executive, and eventually judiciary are worried about. Like most people of the far left persuasion, you do not believe in free enterprise -- the right of individuals to acquire things through hard work and mutually desirable interactions with other individuals and institutions.

Unfortunately, history has shown again and again that attempting to regulate human nature from the top down simply doesn't work. You only have to look at Cuba, N. Korea, or the former USSR to see what I mean. Contrast that to the development of China and Vietnam, where, in spite of politically repressive one-party rule, capitalism has been allowed to flourish, to the great benefit of everyone in those countries.

Read Kurt Vonnegut's short story Harrison Bergeron. It outlines the folly of attempting to legislate 'fair treatment' to all, regardless of their capability, ambition, or resources.

As others have said, we do NOT want to be Europe. The fact that Europe loves Obama actually does not do him much good over here, frankly.

Finally, RMS to my mind epitomizes the thought process of the far-left fringe of US society. He clearly does not believe in intellectual property, and I suspect deep down that philosophy extends to all property. He does not want to allow me the freedom to sell someone a limited right to access certain information. Why don't the two of us have that right? Why do people rail and moan about the fact that music costs money, when the artists they like have made the decision to sign record deals that are structured that way? Vote with your pocketbook -- listen to artists who release their material under Creative Commons.

-dan

Daniel Matthis said...

Menda said...
In Europe a president like him would be never voted TWICE.

--

I take it you forgot about Hitler being voted into power and renewed the “temporary” delegation of emergency powers every 4 years?

Doesn't matter if we get Obama or McCain, the US loses as both will look to get more power in the governments hands.

Mark said...

I think maybe it's time to move to FreeBSD...

The comments here are astounding. "McCain seems a little creepy to me;" "McCain sounds like the name of a bad guy in an action movie." Comments like this prove that Obama is the better man? No, it means that most people are idiots and make decisions that impact other people's lives with no more thought than "huh huh, sounds like a creepy guy."

The people I see around me who are voting for Obama, they either want something for free or they are obsessed with celebrity. I'm so sick of hearing this crap about "nuance." "Nuance" is a euphemism for stuffy, holier-than-thou talk that makes insecure people feel like they're smart.

There is one bright side to an Obama presidency - the world is so obsessed with him, he could just jet-set around to all these countries, flash his dynamite smile, and countries will do whatever we want.

And that's sad really, when you think about it. The rest of the world has turned global politics into a middle schooler TV drama. The dumb-but-charasmatic popular guy wins over the hearts and minds of all the kids in the hallway, and the nerds who are working hard and studying up get laughed at, mocked, kicked down the stairs, and excluded from everybody's party. Obama is the popular guy in middle school, McCain is not. That's about all the "nuance" this has.

Without capitalism, Linus, you'd still be posting just a kernel to usenet. Other people did all the hard work to make it usable, and the success of any open-source hero is built on guilting other people into doing work for them. It's no surprise you're for Obama. But do me a favor, huh? Make this the last time you ever talk about politics. Let your fans, of which I was one, like you for what you've accomplished, without having reasons to dislike you. Don't throw out this stupid Eruo-jingoism and imply that the country that made your iPod shouldn't have ever been in an economic position to do so.

Sadus said...

Linus,
Why on earth do you allow people to comment? The page is endless full of senseless comments.

Faryshta said...

Well there are many people who didn't finish the post and are commenting right now.

Mr Torvalds you have helped OpenSource far beyond RMS will, because when RMS was making conferences and writing the GNU Manifesto, you were working on a system that worked. Without something that works GNU Manifesto would be useless.

Txx again Mr Torvalds.

Kelvin Vicente said...

# About the battle of the good X evil:
I think that what you said is right, i really agree that when people starts to think that there´s only one way about how the systems has to be, these people kills one of the most important thing that we learn with the open source: the freedom to choose what system you wanna use.
And this, for me, is a life´s filosofy.

Ty said...

All I can say is this:

Obama wants his policies to be like Bill Clinton.

If you are American or remember when Clinton was in office, compare this:

8 Years of Clinton

8 Years of Bush

Which left us better..

And that is all that needs to be said.

Ty said...

Reply to Mark:

"The dumb-but-charasmatic popular guy wins over the hearts and minds of all the kids in the hallway"

So Obama would be the dumb guy because he is popular???

Hummmmm yet he has a BA from Columbia U and a Juris Doctor (J.D.) magna cum laude from Harvard. Far from the dumb popular jock type.

Obama is popular because he pulled him self up by his boot straps, the same crap that the GOP always touts. Obama stole that from them this time.

He is good looking, has a great wife and kids, gets right to the point about his policies (If you like them or not) Doesn't waste time like childish Mccain calling names at every rally but wont answer direct questions about policy!

And speaking of dumb, Bush now that is a dumb son of a gun!

Like I said in my last post. 8 years of Clinton and 8 Years of Bush. We know that Clinton left America in MUCH better shape then it is now. Obama will do the same.

Nilson said...

Wise words linus, about politics, i'm Brazilian and i can say that most of us think in the same way yours.

bacon said...

@Matt: I don't think I have a great answer to the problem of having two powerful political parties. I think it's a result of majority rules voting.

With voting, only the majority matters, so you could splinter up into small groups each with essentially no power, or combine. The groups that combine, win and gain more power. One group will never happen, that is just a facade for the system collapsing into multiple small groups with their own interests which will conglomerate and grow again.

Churchill said it best: "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."

notriddle said...

Great post in general. The world is not black and white. However, I don't like either of your answers.

Obama: How is he actually going to pull off what he plans to do?

GPLv3: I read the license and don't really dislike any of the stuff it added compared to the GPLv2. If I license something so that people can change it, then isn't it a given that nobody should be able to say that people cannot.

Felipe said...

>Mr Torvalds you have helped OpenSource far beyond RMS will, because when RMS was making conferences and writing the GNU Manifesto, you were working on a system that worked. Without something that works GNU Manifesto would be useless.
Torvalds was 15 when Richard Stallman started the GNU project, GNU GPL, GNU Manifesto, and other free software. The Linux "operating system" is composed largely of GNU software. Without it, the operating system you know and love today wouldn't be the same. Thanks to Richard Stallman, "linux operating system" is free (as in speech).

Kragil said...

Great talk from Obama at Google.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4yVlPqeZwo

He does not call people ugly and stupid ;) but he talks about what he will do as president.

NPRLisner said...

Thank you Linus for posting your support for Obama. This is the first time I've ever read your blog. I'm glad I picked today to start. From one social liberal to another, lets hope that this is truly a new beginning and a different kind of leader. It's been a long time that I have had anyone to admire and respect to lead our country and show the true face of our nation to the rest of the world.

Eats Wombats said...

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
George Bernard Shaw
Irish dramatist & socialist (1856 - 1950)

RMS is not reasonable. Linus tries unreasonably hard to be reasonable, sometimes, but it's just an act.

hank said...

Geez Linus, why do you always have to go around being so humble and likable? It's as if creating the greatest operating system kernel in the world wasn't enough for you.. you still have to walk around being an all-around good guy. thanks man.

Rob said...

Anyone can cherry-pick his statements.

It's pretty apparent that Obama is just a panderer and will do anything to get elected.

When the Justice Department gets done pealing through the hundreds of thousands of illegal campaign contributions made through his website (maybe a year into the administration?) I suspect he'll have to pay back 20% of the $600 million he raised. No worries - hollywood and associated other rich mindless libs will come to the rescue. But the scandal will be hard to miss - even with the dead old media in the tank. That's
probably one of several major bumps - the guy's an empty suit.

But yeah, get excited, all of socialist Europe is ... one of their own.

Harsha said...

A bit of an addle...

Thank God, we were not asked to write GPL v2/v3.

Hats off to RMS, Linus (Simultaneously)!!

Stefan said...

Interesting post.

I see alot of similarities in the music scene to what you mention here.

I have had the (questionable) joy of running both an indie label and a web programming company at the same time. I often find myself surprised upon how much this filesharing debate has turned into a full fledged "us against them" conflict, although its obviously not that simple from my viewpoint, having one foot in each camp.

This "war" is now obviously killing indies by the hour, as the "soldiers" dont see any difference between the major labels and your flat broke idealistic indie. But the excitement of being "at the front" seems to block most all reflection about how a new music scene/-market could and should grow out of the new possibilities.

For example i find it strange that the top download list on TPB is filled with utter crap from the major media companies if filesharing generally is to promote alternatives to this mainstream-culture. From what I see, filesharing is now strenghtening the marketing of the major labels on the cost of all those Indies and artists giving away their music.

But reaching out with this concern in most any forum (both music organisations and to the filesharers) is close to impossible, as you'd first have to convince them that their "enemy" is actually an asset to some extent... Feeding a conflict is easy, I guess. Finding common ground is seemingly alot harder...

linux_learner said...

I don't care about politics. Politicians will say anything to get into office. Having been a voting citizen for sometime, I will not be voting for anyone.

As to the issue at hand, black and white, I completely agree. There are many shades of gray and should be considered carefully. I followed the debate on GPL3, read the GPL3, and I can see why developers don't like the GPL3. I also thought the GPL2 was just fine. Stallman thinks idealistically, and wants an idealistic world. Such a place doesn't exist. Idealism is for fairy tales and campaigns We need realism.

carlafields01 said...

My son (24 years old) sent me a link to this blog, telling me how much he respects you. I am thrilled that he and his peers can hear such a valuable message from someone they admire. I agree that, with such a diverse background of race, culture and religion, Obama seems to see people as people, without the necessity of labeling. I believe that he is willing to listen, and always keep his mind open to learning. This makes me hopeful for positive change in our country and our world. If you only see black and white, you miss the rainbows!

Maarten Kooiker said...

Agree with the GPLv2 VS. GPLv3 and I also hope Obama will win.
to menda: "In Europe a president like him would be never voted TWICE."
You couldn't be more wrong!! Take a look at Italy, where Berlusconi was voted several times.....and I am sure that he is WORSE than Bush (I know that that is hard to immagine, but it simply is true).

cheers, Maarten

Rudá said...

``Without capitalism, Linus, you'd still be posting just a kernel to usenet.''

OMFG! This is the quote of the year.

crowne said...

In certain cases I'm quite a big fan of black and white ...

if (it depends) then
    maybe
else
    possibly not;

cantormath said...

Drawing a connection from GPLv3 advocates and religious extremists is not entirely fair. Yes, some people treat the issues like religious doctrine, however, switching from GPLv2 to GPLv3 is also important for "nonreligious" reasons. The importance is in preserving the users' freedoms more thoroughly. GPLv3 fills the loop holes that companies, like TiVo, have found in GPLv2 that take advantage of users.

GPLv3 aside, it is not enough to license your software "Open Source". One really needs to have the intention of preserving the users rights in mind when labeling ones source code open.

Many projects, like Zimbra, are "pretend" open source projects with the illusion that they develop their product with the users interest in mind. Beware of the Community Edition (CE) and Enterprise Editions (EE). Projects using such a model, IMO, are not "open source" purely for the reason that the CE is being used as a trial edition while the EE is the only version with full functionality.

IMO, these are just some of the reasons why Linux should move to GPLv3 as soon as legally possible.

Please take no offense to my opinion.

medaglia said...

Uhm, nice post! :)

Maybe it's a good time for you to talk about microkernels without being black or white.

nocturn said...

I'm not debating the Obama issue any more since he already won today, so the majority of Americans shared your perference (I'm glad).

But I have to disagree with you on the GPLv3 and RMS.
The GPLv3 is not against something particular, but rather a way of protecting Free Software. The GPLv2 did essentially the same, but the landscape changed since it was created.

RMS may be a black-and-white type of person, but he has a clear view on things like the 'intellectual property' hype that is used against Free Software.

These quite clear arguments justify the GPLv3 to me.

What I do not really understand is why you are so much against it when you clearly liked the protection the GPLv2 brought your kernel.

Maybe a Torvalds - RMS debate would be nice :-)

Swajak said...

WOOHOOO!! GOBAMA!

Wille said...

I agree with Stallman, because he defends free software for ideology not for hate or angry. It's a matter of liberty, not price or any other thing. Stallman actions are for ideologies, not for hate or angry.

mikem13 said...

menda said:
If Europe wants Obama it's a sign that he will be a good president. After seeing what americans vote (George Bush) I wonder if the majority of americans are stupid or just that they have a lack of history.

If Europe wants Obama, they can have him. He's a socialist so that's where he belongs. I know so many people who just have a blind hatred of anything Bush. How can they see both sides? Now that's silly and wrong-minded.

milk and oj said...

@Linus ON November 2, 2008 11:30 PM

Ok, thank you for making that more clear for me; BTW, here is an interesting insight I just had after reading your respone: while the makeup of mankind might resemble something as diverse as all the colors in the electromagnetic spectrum a machine will still read and write in black and white.

Jonas said...

I stand by your side 110% with Obama. Really belive we now going for a better world. It's not to get by that USA has the most influence on the rest of the world, and I think Obama will be leading USA to be a better example. I cant wait for the next president who have the support to not be religious and have the balls to change the constitution.

Woodlark (Kangaskiuru) said...

My very best wishes to Mr. Torvalds and his family. - Jag önskar Linus Torvalds och hans familj all lycka. - Parhaimmat onnen toivotukset Linus Torvaldsille ja hänen perheelleen. \\Woodlark (Kangaskiuru), Nordic Countries Europe

bdognet said...

Obama is a disgrace! He is not qualified to be president:

http://www.edgeblog.net/2008/the-triumph-of-mediocrity/

Oh, and for the record, McCain also lived outside the US... granted it was in a Viet Cong prison, but I think he's seen at least as much of the rest of the world as Obama.

I have never been more ashamed of my country:

http://www.edgeblog.net/2008/ashamed-of-my-country/

GNUix said...

The only thing that irritates me with 'Linux' Vs. 'Stallman' is exactly what you describe that you don't like. Because you don't like Stallman all of your followers don't like Stallman. The race to put GNU/Linux on the desktop has also been the race to erase the FSF, Stallman, and GNU from the picture. Popular podcast's like the Linux Action Show publicly blast the FSF and Stallman and put them down. It's wrong.

Individual's have to decide for themselves if the software or the freedom/community is more important, if it's acceptable to use/include proprietary software. The choice should be, however, an informed one.

One person mentioned that recognizing the FSF and RMS is somehow taking something away from every other contributor. I think this is preposterous. We have to work together and recognize each other's strength's and weakness's and stop attacking each other.

dash said...

Thanks for sharing the video Linus. I already had a very positive impression of Barack Obama after hearing his graceful and uplifting post victory acceptance speech.

To often the representation we get of religious, or Christian, America is the caricature evangelist pea brain like Bill Riley (empty vessels really do make most sound). So it's so refreshing to hear that Obama is Christian while also being a rationalist and clearly a man of considerable intellect and genuine moral feeling.

I have a lot of hope for Obama-led America. One of the greatest things that he could achieve is reducing polarization of political affiliation along religious lines, and, as he says in the video "reach out to evangelist Christians". If the Christian right were to become enlightened to the fact that the democratic party is the truly moral option, and that the elimination of poverty and inequality are far more pertinent moral crusades than distractions such as gay marriage and abortion, then America could enter an age of enlightenment and reason the likes of which the world has never seen before.

gnuosphere said...

Linus, we were having a good dialog by email over two years ago and you never answered my question. Perhaps you will take a shot at it now...here it is in its original from August 21st, 2006:

---------------
[Linus, Y]ou say buyers should make clear their desire for hackable hardware and that they should not pay for hardware they cannot modify. Fine, but I the copyright holder am going to take you, the hardware manufacturer, to court if you dare make this "hackable hardware" and have you charged for "circumvention" under the DMCA. How is the buyer who desires "hackable hardware" going to stop me?
---------------

I'm still perplexed as to why you were willing to converse with me through so many emails but then fell silent to this question. I don't believe I said anything offensive. Would you care to respond now?

Dave said...

That was a beautiful observation which left me with a vision of who you are eternally as a person. thank you.

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Dinamite said...

Great article.

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fusion_is_fundemental said...

I guess I have to settle this "what does the GPLv2, GPLv3" mean once and for all.

Take the TiVo case. What the GPL says is that TiVo has to "pass on" the same rights they received. In other words TiVo legally "cannot deny you the right" to modify the software that is under the GPL just at they could not be denied to do the same.

They may try to prevent you from changing the software in their hardware but they have no "legal" power to stop you from doing so and if you succeed in running it on their hardware they are legally powerless to stop you or demand that don't tell others how to do it.

fusion_is_fundemental said...

I forgot to add that Stallman is right and you're wrong.

What you fail to realize is that DRM is not about protecting the rights of companies to make a profit but it is about the in draconian control of the end user and their right to information. In the end, it's not really about Hollywood or intellectual property but about but about the right to be informed and self determination.

Bet you thought it's only about software but it has far reaching consequences about the basic inalienable freedoms all persons poses and are entitled to.

ben said...

what you fail to realize is that while your, linus, and stallman's goals are similar - namely producing and spreading free software - they are based on very different reasoning:
you are interested in technics, powerful software and whatsoever, while stallman is driven by some ethical views.
this is the reason why stallman is in fact OBLIGED to act in a black-and-white fashion. any exception or compromise would make his mission less trustworthy.
imagine a greenpeace activist who allows occasional whale chasing or a politician who is usually against death penalty, but sometimes not. this would not work. and this is why stallman cannot act in a different way.
http://ben-ahrens.blogspot.com

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Tape Operator said...

Definitely, I'd rather chop a finger off and just send it to Bill than use LINUX. Just can't get involved with anything where my supposed 'peer group' behaves in general as if they are 12.

I control about 2200 desktop machines, the application are browser-based and don't extend the browser in any significant way.

My boss asked me about LINUX, and I told him that I'd pay full cost for the 2200 licenses AND do the installs myself rather than deal with LINUX. He asked me why and all I had to do to convince him that LINUX is just a sad joke was tell him to check out /.

Oh, and I hate Windows...

Swapnil said...

I would wish for a world where RMS and Linus and together. I hope personally you two have great respect for each other and do admire each other's contribution. While he is the visionary, you are the engineer and together you are building a world which was not possible otherwise. I would very much want for you two to join forces and instead of criticizing him in public if you start appreciating it -- doctrine of agree to disagree -- I trust the Richard-Linus duo with be the MOST powerful force in the history of technology and will wipe out any one who curbs freedom, thus realising your as well as RMS's dreams. But, that is possible in a perfect world. And we don't live in a perfect world. What do you think Linus, want to give it a try and give us all a world which is far far better than any dreamland? Please, extend a hand of support to RMS and let's create the world which you dreamt of. Us, the small soldiers of Linux and Free Software army are waiting for the two leaders to come together. Please do that....

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Olle B said...

I for one do not think that RMS is single-issue. I suppose you have seen his blog with political notes. That's a lot of different topics...

And while he has strong opinons indeed, i don't think he's more of a black-and-white thinker that the average guy. But of course you're right - one should strive to get a more balanced view of everything. RMS could try that a bit more indeed. I probably am kind of a black-and-white thinker myself anyway, sadly. Kudos to you for reminding the rest of us to be more balanced in our thinking.

But on the other hand, as other s have already pointed out: Had RMS not been so stubborn, we might not have had GNU today. (And with no GNU, no Linux. At least not Linux as we know it today.) Being stubborn, hacking on GNU, and eventually going more and more towards campaigning about free software and how valuable free software really is, it's really his thing, and he has managed that great IMHO.

Also, i disagree with you about the very issue here - I think the FSF/RMS raises several VERY valid and important points about software - things that the public needs to know about, need to get an own opinion about. Not that they all should just blindly follow RMS - or any other leader for that matter - but that the FSF has an important message. I support them totally, and hope for as little dependency on non-free software as possible. (I hope to go 100% FLOSS during 2009.)

You're of course right that it's not a question of good vs. evil. Proprietary software isn't evil. At least not always. ;) But i for one don't like when i cannot debug, or "look into" a program. I definitely don't like when I'm not allowed to make copies, or when I have to pay a fee to "unlock" a commercial program. I also dislike when I can't build a new feature on top of an already existing program. Since i don't just want these rights myself, i also want others to have them, supporting the idealistic ideology of free software is an easy choice for me.

And i too am glad Obama won.

I hope both you and RMS get a great 2009! See you in Sweden sometime.

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arnuld said...

While I agree with you Linus that everything is not Black & White and some things do are. Itys pretty clear that FSF if working for the freedom of the users (rather than some propaganda to gain itself a position).

GPLv3 was required for the things most people don't know (except you and me at least).

I also agree with you on the fact that "hatred towrds Microsoft" is a stupid thing to do. I don't like people who say Microsoft is evil. Microsoft is just the product of some irresponsible and "not fit for the technical job" people. Hwlloween Documents have made this thing very clear: ...to understand how to compete against OSS, we must target a process rather than a company.

Bill Gates has some really intelligent people working on his side.

I also understand that RMS's rhetoric does not work. I have tried talking to people about Free Software, no one gives a damn about Open Source or Free Software. Very, Very and Very few people do and they are techies. Do Hell with user, if people don't give a damn, then I will not give a damn about them. Thats why I stop thinking about stupid and selfish users. I just try to write quality code and put GPLv3 on it, thats it.

Josinalvo said...

there I go, to be advocate of the devil in a months old post ...

but anyway ... The way I see, the GPL is not about imposing a notion of "good vs evil" (well, it might have been conceived that way ...)

Its about setting a cost to use the software.

"See, you can use it, as long as I get access to the changes, and get to change them too" (not quite to the letter of the GPL, but it ends up like that most of the time)

And I get that someone would feel cheated to write software in such an expectation, only to find himself unable to change the software (or to use the changed software on the tivo that contains it)

so, it's not about forcing a worldview on the tivo guys, it's about getting something back for your effort, rather than just give it away

Doost said...

“Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.”

“Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”

Well, I really really support RMS. Without him, we would not see a lot of collaborative things we are seeing around us today. Lots of things would simply not exist. He is a visionary, we should really work hard to make his dreams come true - in the process, we would only be helping ourselves!

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KO said...

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rio said...

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rio said...

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rio said...

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