And obviously I'm happy with the kids being comfy with a computer, but we've set some basic rules for it. Notably, they can't just play all those flash games all the time. And sometimes, if they don't do their homework, we disallow it entirely, or - happily more commonly - we give extra time for good behaviour or for some homework that needs more googling.
But I'm a geek, and I'm not at all interested in trying to do any of this manually.
So I wrote (and recently re-wrote, since a disk crash destroyed my original) a simple internet usage tracker for them, which allows me to set usage limits per kid, and which tracks how much time they use online, and forcibly logs them off if they go over the limits. It's a stupid program, but it works pretty well (if you run Linux, of course ;), and since I had to rewrite it I asked some of the git people for help with the simple graphical UI that shows the kids how much time they have left.
So for any other Linux user with kids and git, and who wants to do the same, here's a pointer to the git summary page: tracker.git, and you can get it with
git clone git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/trackerif you want to play around with it. It's not fancy, it has no docs, no installation instructions etc, but if people are actually interested, I'll be happy to help. Why? Because I've always noticed that my own projects get so much better if others are involved, even if it's just as a user...
59 comments:
First! ;)
This project looks very promising.
I think it's a good idea. My brother and sister spent far too much time playing on the itnernet; he plays flight simulators and watches many Youtube videos, she plays Webkinz. (Which I still don't see the attraction to.)
Can I have your permission to add your blog to my blogroll? I find it's rude not to ask beforehand.
If "manually" means discussing with your children the reasons why these expectations are in place and trusting (instead of controlling through technology) them to take responsibility for their actions then perhaps, "manually" may pay better developmental dividends in the long-run.
Just a thought.
If you set up a 'mechanical' regulator to control what your children do, imho it will have unfortunate effects, vis: Hinder, if not actually destroy the development of their self-discipline; present them with the challenge to subvert the mechanical controller; produce an illicit activity which, simply because it's illicit, becomes highly desirable.
I found that the easiest way to 'proof' a child against an undesirable, but otherwise harmless, activity is to insist that they spend a whole week-end doing it. Said child will become so absolutely sick of it, that they'll never want touch it again. Take time to talk with your children, and explain why devoting endless hours to pointless and addictive computerised gaming habits is actually harmful to their development. Instead offer activities which are developmental. The search terms "Alice" ( MS Windows only unfortunately ), "Scratch", "E-Toys", and "Blender3D" come to mind. Finally don't forget that it's not of much consequence to the real world if the next Linux kernel is released on Wednesday instead of Monday.
All that said, the IPCop firewall has the precise facilities you need available as an add-on plug-in.
@ Christopher
Ofcourse being open with your kids and learning them self discipline is a good thing.
For a child to grow up as a self-sufficient human being that also includes learning his/her limitations and trying to find solutions to live with those.
That might result in them asking for help when they have trouble controlling the urge to play flash games. Or the two of you together realizing it's not working. Then you might end up together looking for a tool like this.
I've always noticed that my own projects get so much better if others are involved, even if it's just as a user...
The above gets my nomination for understatement of the epoch.
Please make it usable.
I'll be a regular for the tech. I'd be a little worried about posting pictures of my kids - given the amount of nutters on the web, and I'm not famous. As for the
sanctimonious flob from gnuosphere! Well the two are not mutually exclusive, are they? And you wouldn't leave a loaded gun on your kitchen table, would you?
Thanks - I am definitely going to use that to restrict my own time online. It's about to perform a self-help miracle...
Don't have kids but I would recommend that to nix pplz. Btw Is this real Linus or just another faker? U got my email :)
So I assume you don't ascribe to the theories of the "one laptop per child people"?
It is Christmas soon, maybe Joulupukki will give them an EEEPC each...
Funny thing is I am pretty sure I am the person who needs this. I might actually use it against my self.
Hi Linus :)
welcome to blogging world. I just saw your post in Hacker News website...
Happy blogging!
Linus you're a geek yourself and you're letting your 3 children share a computer plus you're limiting their online time...
Looks like you're doing a nice job creating the next generation of computer obsessed coders... o wait, you're not ._.' You have to give children enough time to find out things on their own. Hell that's how computer expert (in whatever field) probably began.
My teenager will spend every breathing second online yapping on AIM if I let him.
Jiff
http://www.Privacy-Center.net
You shouldn't use blogger.com, because I can't submit a patch.
Here: http://web.mit.edu/mfwitten/Public/tracker/optimization.patch
You should check out RescueTime. It tracks the applications running on your machine, and the pages visited in a browser. You can categorize the apps, like "work" or "waste", and track your productivity.
http://rescutime.com
Was surprised to see the blogs link in the 2.6.27-RC mail... :-)
Hope it come out next week ... Happy to see some blogging at last from u ..
I just want to point out that a man who just spent the effort of coding a brilliant access monitor, does his communicating through Blogger account.
Next we'll see Stallman using a GUI-based web browser, for shame.
I prefer the tactic of degrading the performance/access as the limit is approached as opposed to forcible logout. It's more of a gentle suggestion to go do something else for a while rather than a command to stop using the computer.
Running Linux should be enough to deter the kids from playing flash games!
:)
I suggest you drop "dummy" in check()'s sscanf() and use the assignment-suppressing character '*', as in "%*x".
I noticed a few comments from some parents of teenagers. Speaking as a 17 year old computer geek and Linux enthusiast I think that if my father had limited the time I spent on the computer I would not be what I am now; computers had a very positive impact on my life. I realize all kids are different but for me I am so glad I had the freedom to explore.
The thought that came to mind when reading your post is the same that I saw same other commenters had already thought: "To much flash on linux? Isn't that a non-existing problem?"
I've used Gentoo for almost 8 years now, and the flash support really is like a rollercoaster. Now, when Firefox 3.0.3 is out and the new beta10 of Adobe flash, it is really unstable. My FF crashes all the time.
But maybe your kids are using the GNU version of flash? =)
@peter one word to rescue -- nspluginwrapper. Does it exist in Gentoo-land?
@Ivan:
"Rescuetime" is a Windows software it seems?? Why would Linus Torvalds the father of Linux (or anyone else into Linux for that matter) want to use Windows or Windows programs?
:-)
That sounds interesting, you should check out http://www.glubble.ocm and look at our kids monitor. Perhaps we can integrate our services
I usually use dansguard for myself :-P
It comes preinstalled in Mandriva distribution and I like the UI what it has. It just makes easy to block wanted internet sites and set restricted times for my user account so I can easily stop myself using computer on the week when I really need just to study. Even that I know that I could anytime just turn it off because I am the only user of my machine, it just helps keeping using computer in good amounts :-)
-- Finnish
Itse käytän yleensä Dansguardian ohjelmistoa :-P
Se tulee esiasennettuna Mandriva jakelupaketissa ja pidän sille tehdystä käyttöliittymästä.
Se mahdollistaa helposti sivustojen blokkaamisen ja rajoittaa käyttäjätilini käyttöaikaa jolloin voin estää itseäni käyttämästä tietokonetta viikolla silloin kun täytyy todellakin lukea.
Vaikka tiedän että voin koska tahansa sulkea sen koska olen tietokoneen ainoa käyttäjä, se vain auttaa pitämään tietokoneenkäytön sopivina määrinä :-)
Can I just ask; how old are your kids?
I have been struggling with the whole "controlling" of kids thing. One of my kids is a teenager, the other one younger.. and so far I have just told that "I am watching". This might be naive, but a couple of times have have actually checked them out and they have done what I have said. Control vs. non-control...
Regards,
Your fellow Finn from Dallas, Texas with two Finnish kids (we have been here for more than 10 years as well). My wife used to go in the same school with your wife.
I'm interested. I have 3 kids, none of them use the computer... yet, but sometime I'll need to add a PC in our home... this programs seems to be perfect for them.
clemare
Wow, sounds a great application, which windows you use?
Jajajaja, glad to get "to know" the guy who builds my kernel and thanks to who I have a work right now.
That tools seems useful, the kinds of things windows or any proprietary system will never have.
"Because I've always noticed that my own projects get so much better if others are involved"
;-)
Yes, we also noticed that!
Keep up the good work!
They are not comfortable with command line? :-)
Hello Linus,
I will be greatful from you if you write a brief comment in each function explaining the behavior of them.
thank you beforehand.
PS: sorry if my english sucks :)
I cannot imagine what would have been the fate of that ‘terminal emulater’ thingy you were trying to write had your mom limited the amount of time you sat in front of your shiny new 386, and played Prince of Persia.
Forcibily logging off kids is not a good idea… on them at least.
(I wanted to thank you for Linux — but a few words alone cannot represent the amount of gratitude I have towards your work!)
In Russia, very many children don`t controlled by parents. They even watch porn :D And playing games like GTA :) And parents don`t know about it :)
This program is not need in Russia :)
I wonder whether Linux existed today if Linus' parents had installed such a time limiter on *their* son's first computer ...
Sounds good, even for me, a 14 years older boy. Thanks god my parents aren't going to install it in my laptop :P
Oh, another thing. Is there anyway to install it in linux to analyze a windows machine in the same net? I would like to do it since our internet connection isn't unlimited (only 4gb a month) and my sister spends a lot playing things like habbo and that kind of flash nonsense games...
Greetings
http://www.ntop.org/
This will tell you all about the packets origins and destinations etc. etc.,, but not - as far as I can tell - the exact count for each machine on the home network.
"three kids and one computer works fine most of the time, but sometimes they have homework that requires it, and then sharing doesn't always work so well"
While I've not had a chance to try it personally, you might find something like Ndiyo's Hubster to be of interest:
http://www.ndiyo.org/systems/hubster/basics
http://www.ndiyo.org/news/samsunghubster
as I understand this tool, he's not limiting the time the kids can spend on the computer, he's limiting the time they can spend on the Internet.
Good idea.
Finnish:
Hyvä idea.
If this is what you are interested in, I suggest you go here and get a very well developed program.
http://timekpr.blogspot.com/
Looks like a nice concept.....just had a look at the code, will try to be a user of this project.....
To control on-line usage of my 14-years son I use software called Ez Internet Timer. Works just fine under Vista 64-bit.
Thank you for the hint Greg. I just downloaded Ez Internet Timer from their website www.internettimer.net, that is exactly what I was looking for a long time. One of the most favorite features is the ability to set browsing and messaging timers separately from emails. And it's user user friendly :)
No.
Perhaps you could also give your children some more productive fun things to do with the computer, other than just games -
You could install some music software, like Rosegarden, or something.
It might turn out that they really enjoy composing or playing with music.
Or you could install art software, but I'd assume that GIMP is already installed.
Do they ever play with it? I remember that I used to play with the Paint program on my family's Acorn computer a lot when I was very young.
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I would be really insulted if my father tried to install that app on my computer. anyway, the only way he can do it involves reseting the BIOS, since he doesn't know my password and using a repair CD to change it requires making the computer boot from it, and yeah...that's disabled and the BIOS setup is password-protected. But it would be useful if you want to control yourself, infact I made a python script to remind me to take breaks.
Linus,
how long before your kids figure out to spoof a proxy? Or write an app that spoofs the IP?
:)))
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